So, relating back to whether science is a religion, i would like to finish my thoughts on that as i promised.
I believe that in Geertz's words "A system of symbols which acts to establish powerful, pervasive, and long-lasting moods and motivations in men by formulating conceptions of a general order of existence and clothing these conceptions with such an aura of factuality that the moods and motivations seem uniquely realistic," science can be seen as religion. This definition embodies the reality of mathematics. First, mathematics incorporates symbols to represent the world. It has created a system in which can we describe the world. The symbols by themselves only have the meaning that we give them just like any religion. Second, math is the most persuasive tool we have. Unlike some other sciences where the best we can do is theories, while in math, we have proofs to where this is no variation and we know they are correct. these proofs "formulate conceptions of general order" by literally putting the universe in order as defined by the symbols we have created, and by using proofs, everything done with math, if done correctly, is factual.
One things that is greatly disputed is the idea of fate and destiny. some argue that fate and destiny are determined and can't be changed. Some look and try to figure out there destiny. "Immutable laws prescribed the motion of every particle in the universe, exactly and forever" --Ian Stewart. While an impossible task, if every particle in the universe was mapped, the future could be told. Wouldn't knowing exactly how every particle behaved in the universe be very similar to describing destiny and fate. Something immutable that we foresee. It would prove that everything was predetermined by the beginning of the universe. That initial moment which set everything in motion.
Religion is created to describe the unknown, bring order from chaos, connect to the world and universe, provide control life, and much more. While religion may be seen as separate from science and math, in fact, the definition of religion deeply includes math and science to their full potential.
this is a really interesting topic. i wonder wether there are any groups that you can find or already know of that have been living with this as their "faith" and to research what sorts of life styles they lead... also, if everything is so factual and can be figured out to a factual state by the human brain... is there a higher power in the "religion" then the capability of our own minds solving our own problems?
ReplyDeleteI like the quote by Ian Stewart...it's the counter-argument to critics who think that religion has to encompass some idea of fate or destiny. The immutable laws found in science and in math are a type of destiny, just like in other religions.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: If science/math can be considered a religion, could (or would) public schools allow students to opt out of taking courses because it enforces relgious beliefs on them? Just some food for thought... :)
after this morning's fun (and i do mean fun) discussion, i've decided to throw my two cents in here. like mr. smith said, i think we can see that both science and religion address some of the same issues, such as understanding the world and having some influence on how we choose to live. if we look at geertz' definition exclusively, yes science could be religion, but like you said, definitions are completely subjective. to me, religion should have a sense of spirituality, which is not even considered in science because we're supposed to be thinking quantitatively and qualitatively - how can you quantify or qualify spirituality? i think i'm content with saying that there is overlap between science and religion, but not that science is a religion or that religion is a science.
ReplyDeleteon a side note...the peanut butter video is really amusing/frightening. i don't even know where to begin, but it just shows that a person can sell any idea as long as they do so with confidence.
hmm. While I am open to everything and this post does do alot for math as a religion, I am still skeptical based on one remaining question. Does math provide morals? In every other aspect it seems to hold true to the religion definition, but does math provide morals? Or is there another recognized religion that does not? Other than that, well said and it is a fairly convincing argument.
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